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    • Mon Mar 31, 2008

    Maybe CRM is a lousy term

    Consider subscribing to my blog's RSS feed. It's sticky

    There seems to be a real struggle to capture the flag by software makers when it comes to small business CRM. It’s very difficult to find a clear leader in this space, although many claim to be serving it.

    I think the problem may reside in the fact that what small business marketers really want (need) out of their marketing software may be hard to define and it’s probably not customer relationship management.

    No, what most small business owners want and need out of marketing software is the ability to get home earlier at night, to be able to spend time doing the tactical work they love (I didn’t say that was best, but it is reality), and to follow-up automatically with leads.

    If that’s true then the entire category of software aimed at small business might more accurately be dubbed “marketing automation” software instead of CRM software. Marketing automation software would track contact details, capture leads, send emails, execute on campaign steps, distribute leads to sales folks, and create order and fulfillment tasks and do it all with the potential to use both online and offline marketing tools. (I know, most CRM software does this, but it also rotates and balances your tires.)

    The notion of marketing automation software came directly from a recent conversation I had with Clate Mask, CEO of Infusion Software, on the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. Infusion has poured a great deal of effort into creating a marketing automation tool just for the small business, and while they may not be alone, they certainly seem to be on the right path. (Full disclosure - I am an Infusion user)

    Sometimes it’s hard to abandon long established industry terminology and blaze new paths. It sometimes requires a great deal of energy just getting people to understand how your tool is not what everyone else calls it, but when you get it right, the payoff is worth it.

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    Posted by: John Jantsch on Mar 31, 08 | 8:08 am
    Category: CRM, Entrepreneur, Lead Conversion, Lead Generation, Marketing Tools | Tags: ,

    « Using images in SEO | Home | Tis better to be found than to find »
    • John,

      You mentioned one piece to the "Marketing Automation" puzzle that I'm trying to find the solution for...

      "and create order and fulfillment tasks and do it all with the potential to use both online and offline marketing tools"

      You mention "offline" marketing tools. Does Infusion allow part of your follow-up process to include sending a direct mail letter or postcard to a prospect?

      E-mail automation is great...automating some direct mail pieces would be exceptional. Thoughts?
    • John,

      Love the title of this one. Also love how you painted the real-world needs of the small business owner.

      To answer Kyle's question - yes, automation of direct mail: check. Automation of fax broadcasts: check. Automation of voice broadcasts (voice mail): check.
    • Thank you John; Customer Relationship Management is an oxymoron. Probabilities, budgets, credit limits, text or HTML based email, birth dates, anniversaries, and form letters have little to do with relationships. Software solutions that provide these automation tools are vital to business, and as John stated, misnamed. Perhaps Customer Management, CM, would be enough.

      Customer relationships is a primary category in the soon to be released, SalesDujour.com
    • I have found CRM's to be very ineffective if your workload includes much more than just sales.

      I own a web design company and work for a State Farm Agency. At the agency, we were trained to use an application called "Agents Ally" as a CRM. Agents Ally is a quirky Access database that I have found extremely ineffective, and now I'm calling leads straight through Outlook (which is sucky software as well).

      I've tried some additional CRM's, including Daylite and Franklin Covey's Plan Plus Online. They tend to be ineffective ways to manage the workflow because of the amount of flexibility: There's either too much or too little.

      I'm creating a GTD system for marketing, sales, and everything else in my life. It uses iGoogle, Gmail w/ GTDforGmail, Nozbe or RTM, and a brand new iPhone, which really is becoming the ultimate business tool. I will post a blog on my system soon, so don't forget to bookmark my web site and subscribe to my feed.
    • hi John -

      I guess I might disagree with the premise of the post. The article assumes that CRM is just for the Sales or Marketing department. Or that maintaing a customer relationship is only through the sales process.

      While automation is important, a big part of the "R" is maintaining all communication through the project or task. Having a centralized location for "everything" is so much more useful then having something that has "most things".

      For instance, if I search for a contract in our account, and I can't find it, I KNOW it didn't exist. Because if it did it would be there.

      I think there might be an argument to be made to split these tasks into two programs (ie. automation for marketing, CRM for everyone else) and have some sort of communication between the two apps. I would disagree with that idea, but that's what's great about a market not maintained by a small number of incumbents, the customer gets choose what they want.

      My point here is that marketing is only part of what a CRM does for a business.
    • Hi John,

      I think you hit the nail on the head so to say when you said that it is hard to define exactly what small business owners want and need in a CRM system.

      There are many CRM systems available but it is really up to the small business to choose a system that is best. Obviously if they want one that meets their needs exactly they may want to hire someone to design such a system for them.
    • After analyzing Infusion software to the core, I was pretty impressed with its capabilities and options. It was exactly what I wanted! Or so I thought - after finding out that it does not support international characters (I live in Spain and all my marketing materials are in Spanish), the hefty price tag was not someting that all true small business could afford.

      Luckily for me, I found an alternative: Entellium CRM. I believe it to be at least as good as Infusion or even better and the price is much much much more affordable.

      I am surprised nobody talks about it much in the CRMosphere. I guess that makes it one of the best kept secrets out there.


      NOTE: This is a true testimonial from a real customer.
    • Maybe John is right, but why accept what packaged solutions provide? Go with an open source solution like http://www.sugarcrm.com/

      It's free and you can also customize whatever you want if you have access to programming resources. If you can upgrade this open source software, thousands of other small businesses can also benefit.
    • You have nailed it!
    • Computer Assisted Selling might be better than CRM.
      In the end, it is the salesman or sales rep who has to sell, not the CRM.
      He/She needs tools for setting up conversations as interesting as can be, building the relation and then the selling.
      Markets are all three things: Transactions, Conversations & Relationships.
      Sales should get information from their computer system, not having to enter data into a computer system.
    • Hi John.

      You are so right. Most software applications are trying to sell it all, cater for every different variation of business. This software evolves as clients needs do, but just because one company thinks its a great idea, it does not mean that everyone does.

      My concentration of business with Easy Seo and Net Age are both targeted towards small, medium business and they all have the same problem. They are limited with time, staff, skills, budget etc.

      Thus they dont have the time to research how to use this advanced software, so they just leave it and never make use of it. (they also have to teach the staff)

      John, I will go and have a look at Infusion as a solution for both myself and my clients.

      Thank you.
    • This is definitely something I'm keen to find out more about. I'm looking into Infusion Soft at the moment. I've heard both very positive and less positive reviews so far and am looking forward to making my own mind up about it for my company.

      I think Mark is right when he says that you have to figure out what you need from a system, and then look at what system best fits your needs.

      Thanks to all those who've made suggestions of other options on here. I'm looking forward to comparing these all with Infusion and seeing what works best for me.
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