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Engagement Without Velocity is a Lot of Work

Coincidentally, I’ve been hit with a pretty singular view of the concept of engagement on a number of occasions this week, so I thought I would take it up myself.

The riff running through all of the conversations is that numbers are not the point in marketing, it’s the quality of the numbers that count, the engagement that counts, the level of the conversation that counts if one is to measure the success of one marketing effort or the importance of one blog over another. Don’t get me wrong, I’m huge on engagement, but engagement without velocity is a lot more work. Sometimes the seemingly seedy, or is it bogus, task of building velocity is what really stops people from building much engagement.

Both of these stories, and the resulting comment fest, come at the about the same point from somewhat different angles – are big numbers, particularly numbers that are hard to gauge, like RSS subscribers, important if those numbers are not engaged. (FYI: Duct Tape Marketing does have big RSS numbers inflated somewhat by the fact that some RSS services like Google Reader bundle my blog automatically for people who choose the small business option.)

The problem I wrestle with in this argument is that it must start with the supposition thats every blogger and social media player has the very same goal. Remember marketing is about ROI and long-term results, whatever you deem they be. With that in mind, there’s no play book for what’s more effective or even how to measure what’s right or more valuable. (There certainly are rules for what’s right and wrong, but that’s not what we are talking about.)

What matters always, always is the completion of meaningful long term strategic objectives. So, the discussion of who’s blog readers are more engaged or if 500 hyper engaged readers is better than 50,000 kinda engaged readers somehow starts sounding a bit like the discussion of the best college football team every year. Until there’s a playoff, and everyone has the same goal, the discussion is silly.

From my perspective, a sale is a really big measure, a media mention is big measure, engagement is a big measure, people contacting me in hopes that I might feature their book or product is a big measure, getting a Google search term on page one is a big measure, the attention of an advertiser is a big measure, a really smart person agreeing to be a guest on my podcast is a big measure, many of these goals are achieved by working really hard to build things that can’t always be quantified scientifically, things that build velocity, such as Diggs, Facebook friends, saves to Google, StumbleUpon traffic, Twitter followers, RSS subscribers, and comments.

The point is that in the old world of marketing you simply couldn’t afford to pursue tactics that didn’t produce great ROI, in the new world of marketing you can often very easily afford to throw some things, on message, in the direction of tactics that might not produce one result, but just might, just maybe produce another, if you were actually able to measure it. Integration, velocity, opportunity and brand are the go words for me.

And just to make this entire thing muddier:

Storytelling ROI: Social Engagement Metrics for Bloggers (Interesting metric of engagement from AideRSS)

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  • http://www.pianoinsidemybrain.com/ Howard Yermish

    RSS is a very tricky topic. On one hand, I find myself using Google Reader to stay on top of certain news. It allows me to “fly” through the content and pick out the best bits to read. So from a user perspective, I definitely encourage other users to embrace RSS rather than manual checking. And if I get a few days behind, I just mark everything as read and move forward. Which brings me to the other hand, that is the engagement. I clearly am more engaged with some blogs than with others and I think that this would hold true with most RSS fans. Some sites get my attention more than others.

    So yes, the numbers will be suspicious as you suggest. Maybe the old adage that “50% of my marketing isn’t working, I just don’t know which 50%” still applies to the Internet, even though we have such great metrics from email marketing and Google analytics available to us.

  • http://www.copyblogger.com Brian Clark

    Velocity… I like that. We all need momentum to reach our marketing objectives, and that’s an excellent way to characterize when you’ve finally hit the slipstream of influence (and sales).

  • John Jantsch

    @Brian – thanks for stopping by – I sort of remember in Physics class it having to do with both speed and direction – something we all need to keep in mind. Been a fun topic so far!

  • http://www.lindasbusiness.wordpress.com LindaBusiness

    Well, this post was philosophic and gave me much to think about. I did look at that AideRSS list and was shocked to discover that on my own I had found about six of those sites! And I’m a newbie at this. I will put a wrinkle in things though, as far as counting things like trackbacks and comments and such…I just wonder how many blog readers are like me who don’t know what a trackback is and so I might read a post with great interest but not comment. Also I don’t “do” RSS feeds yet because I don’t really know what they are or how they work. So I’ve just admitted to my kindergarten level expertise! And yet I’m pursuing a marketing strategy online…go figure!

  • http://www.scottfox.com Scott Fox, Author of Internet Riches

    All of this discussion (both here and on Brian’s Copyblogger.com blog earlier today) point toward the need for a next generation of metrics to measure marketing success.

    In the modern, online world, it’s on-going customer/reader relationships that count more than simple uniques, RSS subscribers, or sales based on coaxing a customer into a one-off transaction.

    So, how do you measure the success of a relationship?

    As you’re suggesting, that requires a more complex set of metrics than we have today because the beauty of interacting with real people directly is you never are 100% certain what outcome (positive or negative) may result.

    There have always been lots of ways to casually evaluate relationships in our personal lives but now marketers are confronted with the challenge of measuring them on a vast scale to determine ROI.

  • http://www.mclellancreative.com John Gillett

    The RSS and storytelling ROI numbers can be misleading, but engagement and sales are real measures of successful marketing.

  • http://blogbuildingu.com/ Hendry Lee

    Big numbers are useless without engagement and “velocity.” I agree wholeheartedly. There is no way big numbers can hurt, as in this case. It may even help and seem more impressive (social proof).

    If I’m given the choice, I’d choose both numbers and engagement.

    This really is not an either/or question. There is nothing that will will take engagement away just because you have high RSS subscriber numbers.

  • http://www.rowdy.com Nascar

    This is an interesting point. I do believe sales is the ultimate goal of any marketing plan, however there are many metrics that measure success.

  • http://www.kaplancopy.com Jodi Kaplan

    Great post, John. Thought I’d share this article on engagement which someone just forwarded to me.

    http://knowledge.emory.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1153%23

  • http://aiderss.com Melanie Baker

    “The problem I wrestle with in this argument is that it must start with the supposition that’s every blogger and social media player has the very same goal.”

    That totally nails the results of a lot of conversations I had with the bloggers covered in the list we analyzed. Some thought it was really engaging; some thought it was pretty cool and had a lot of questions (which were a great education for me); and some reflected your statement above — that it wasn’t necessarily what they track (or at least not the most important thing).

    Adjacent to that is the fact that some really valuable stuff — interpersonal interactions — take place off the grid, as it were, in formats like email, or evolve from online venues to offline ones, where we can’t track systematically at all.

    It’s definitely part of the opportunity of the metrics “space”, I think, given that things are so embryonic yet. Ilya, our CTO, has said he thinks the solution to RSS, filtering, engagement measuring, metrics, etc. will be a variety of applications that can work in combinations, and given how many different sets of priorities I’ve seen, I’m certainly inclined to agree.

  • John Jantsch

    @melanie – thanks – you know I’m a big fan of AideRSS and I do think your tools answers some of this already as it shows another layer of engagement well beyond subscribers only.